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 Communism vs. Democracy

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Lord Filip
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PostSubject: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:55 am

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In the social sciences, theories won't get us very far. Instead, we should look at the economic systems, e.g., USSR, CPR, Egypt, Great Britain, and the thousands of small communist and anarchist utopias around the world throughout history.

There we will find that all communist economies eventually floundered because of lack of monetary incentives. They reduced the lowest levels of poverty, but could not advance the general material welfare. Internal violence was reduced, but not necessarily international violence. The only societies that had successful communist economies were primitive native tribes, e.g., American Indians, where most goods were owned by the tribe and personal possessions were few. However, we know what happened to these peoples when confronted by the capitalists!

It is true, democracies, autocracies, dictatorships, etc., are forms of government that have little connection with economic welfare. To understand that subject, we have to look at the economic systems, e.g., capitalism, socialism, communism, etc. Any of the above governments can and have worked with these different economic models with success (and failure). To date, capitalism has shown better results than any other system. However, the current forms of western capitalism are heavily modified by government "rules of the game" that ameliorate the unfavorable side-effects, such as, depressions, excessive inequality, poverty, etc.

Furthermore, feudal, socialist, and communist economies all over the globe, from small utopias (New Harmony, Lanark, Oneida in the U.S.) to colossal nations (Russia), with very few exceptions, have given up on their attempts to establish egalitarian societies because equality and incentive are incompatible.

Where they failed, leftists and fascists removed these liberal governments, but ultimately failed to provide an adequate prescription for per capita income advancement, either by improving technologies or conquering other countries, or both. They are mostly obsolete today. Additionally, all attempts by leftist governments to create classless societies, resulted in merely replacing the capitalist classes with bureaucratic classes, the general population remaining as poor as ever. This was certainly true of the U.S.S.R., and all eastern European countries under the hegemony of the U.S.S.R.

All the richer countries have capitalist economies and most are democratic. In these countries when inequalities generated by capitalism became too great, the exploited and oppressed masses pressured their representatives to pass laws that relieved the poorer segments of the population. Returning to new, revolutionary leftist governments, in the modern world, where would such a government obtain capital and trade to improve the living standards of its people? There are no large leftist governments with such excess money that they can support a poor leftist government until it becomes self-sufficient, a la the then U.S.S.R. vis a vis Cuba.

The rich capitalist countries certainly have no incentive to lend money to leftist governments as a matter of ideology. Best that a new Marxist government can do is redistribute income from the rich to the poor as was done in revolutionary Russia, and Cuba, but then what?

Redistribution benefits the poor at the expense of the rich, but it does not promote increased incomes generally because of the lack of incentives. Therefore, where does it obtain the capital and technology to increase incomes, if the capitalists will not provide it? Inexorably, the lack of incentives under socialism, communism, or any other leftist brand will lead to malaise and poverty, as it did in Russia, eastern Europe, Cuba. There are ample lessons in the 75 years of wars to reach the simple conclusion that democratic capitalist nations are successful, and totalitarian socialist nations are not.

Geography is important in determining whether Nepal has any prospect of becoming richer. Countries that have poor transportation facilities must devote much of the acquired technology to improving it. This was done in the formative years in the U.S. Otherwise, supplies cannot reach producers and products cannot reach customers cheaply enough to be bought by those with modest incomes.

We are talking here, not only of innovative scientists and engineers, the unattainable for Nepal, but technical operators, i.e., "technicians", the people who must know enough math and science to make small decisions involving the operation of increasingly complex machinery.

Whether and how fast a country can modernize itself and become rich, hence, depends not only on geography and culture, but also on the economy, polity, and of course, history of the nations.

Interesting?
~Discuss

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:05 am

Communism vs. Capitalism

To keep it short. Does the Soviet Union still exist?, Communism already proved to be a failure (Allthough the lengthy war in Afghanistan, the aid to very poor communistic countries and the overcostly Soviet Military could be reasons why it failed). It has its upsides but the system is just to costly to maintain. Capitalism doesn't cost a penny.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:09 am

Cipher wrote:
Communism vs. Capitalism

To keep it short. Does the Soviet Union still exist?, Communism already proved to be a failure (Allthough the lengthy war in Afghanistan, the aid to very poor communistic countries and the overcostly Soviet Military could be reasons why it failed). It has its upsides but the system is just to costly to maintain. Capitalism doesn't cost a penny.
But does it pay out, living with the capitalist pigs? I don't know I really don't like either of these tbh. In theory Communism is awesome but it really is hard to maintain. Though during the first economy crisis after WW1 thanks to Communism Russia was the only one not really effected. Would really like to make a greater comparison.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:14 am

The Soviet economy didn't rely on the same principles as the Western economies did. BUT in today's world the Soviet Economy would of suffered to, As it was a major exporter of Oil and other resources (like Russia is now), The demand for those recourses would have gone down affecting the Soviet economy to.

The 1970's Oil Crisis had a very large inpact on the Soviet Unions economy, Even more than it did on that of Western Countries.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:35 pm

Well I can only make the comparison between communism and democracy on the SFRY teritory. During the era of the communism, SFRY was strong, and respected. What surprised me a lot is that SFRY was among the foundators of CERN. People were working hard, that's the fact, but they could made enough money for the living, and the country was getting stronger and stronger.

And now, the democracy. SFRY is chopped on 6 pieces (and it's still getting chopped, by the Americans mostly) the economy is doomed, nothing is done for the countries prosperity. The goverment can do whatever they want because they have enough money to corrupt anyone who would stand against them (but they don't have money, for instance, to build houses for the numerous homeless people).

So, the conclusion would be that communism is better, but, as Filip said, hard to maintain. The only thing I don't like at the comunism is that the most communists don't respect church, which is totally wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:39 pm

Feomathar wrote:

So, the conclusion would be that communism is better, but, as Filip said, hard to maintain. The only thing I don't like at the comunism is that the most communists don't respect church, which is totally wrong.
Well we also had Tito who was full dictator, another bad thing imo.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:06 pm

Yes we did have. But today we also have a kind of dictature behind the mask of democracy.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:44 am

Communism perhaps beats Capitalism in hard times but you can only flourish if you have a free market economy. Serbia and other Former Yugoslavia countries may be in an economic mess, but countries tend to be that way after major wars. Now the money Serbia earns doesn't get wasted on lots of social projects so more can be pumped into the economy to stimulate the growth of the economy. Which in the long run with be much better for Serbia than communism.

Good to read Serbia's war industry is back to Yugoslavia standards, You lot got a 100 million Dollar contract with Iraq.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:03 am

I don't say communism is better, but the way they apply democracy these days, it tends to become worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:52 am

Cipher: Comunisam did not fail. The americans broke Yugoslavia and the SSSR.
Comunisam politics: Every thing is for the people. So every company gets owned by the goverment and the goverment increses the economy in the country.
I vote for comunisam
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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:12 pm

A problem with communism is: if everything is owned and sheared by the people equally then who will represent the people and in which manner. If you have a life time dictator like Tito that ain't really good. Also I doubt communism would survive even if we got it going again.

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PostSubject: Re: Communism vs. Democracy   Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:37 am

You need socialism, not communism per say, seeing as socialism is an ideal and way of life rather then a political movement, you need to blanace the capatilism and sociailism in a government to have a contry suceed and flourish. IE: Australia has medicare (labled a socialist policy by americans) but we have a balance because you have to pay extra taxes if you dont have private health insurance and earn more then a certain amouhnt. IMO thats the right way to do things, helping the little people without giving the rich people excuses to complain. You see what i'm getting at?
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